"I'm an alpha"

Hillevi Lausten, COO at DCMN and Anna Michel, multiple founder and partner at scale up are jointly involved in the scale up Women initiative for more equality in the workplace and in society. The initiative involves a whole range of women who want to shape a new form of feminism. In this double interview, the two talk about characteristics of founders and offer tips for young female founders and executives.

Ms. Lausten and Ms. Michel, you have both held leading positions or founded your own companies. Why do you think women find it more difficult to start up?

Michel: I think the central challenge for founders is initially exactly the same for men and women. When you think about founding, you first have to deal with some self-doubt: "Can I even do all this? Do I know everything important?" The difference is that men like to assume they can do everything, or at least learn how to do it, and yet, unfortunately, women often have beliefs like, "Can I really do that? Can't others do it much better than I can?" exist.

Lausten: For me personally, it's a bit difficult to really distinguish this topic between men and women. When I look at my past, for example, I've had the toughest negotiations with women. In turn, there were some men that I had to push in salary negotiations. The experiences I had in that context softened some stereotypes for me.

How did you learn to assert yourself?

Lausten: Especially in previous leadership positions, I noticed that some male colleagues defined their leadership style by being very loud and taking up a lot of space.For me, that was definitely a challenge. I had to figure out how to make myself heard. Do I have to be that loud now, too? How do I not lose myself and still get noticed?

How did you deal with that?

Lausten: I actually stayed calm. I used pauses in the conversation to intervene and make my points. I stated my opinion clearly, for example, if someone ran over my mouth, I didn't do the same to them, but calmly said, "Please let me finish." Self-reflection was also particularly important for me in this position. I realized relatively quickly where I stood and how I needed to respond.

I guess that's also especially difficult for women who are fresh into a role like this. To acquire this, I recommend reflecting on yourself first and then targeting the things you would like to change. Coaching and books can help a lot. It helped me to always be very well prepared and to present my concerns in a calm but determined manner. After all these experiences I would say: I am an alpha animal, but a calmer one. I don't have to be loud to make myself heard.

Ms. Michel, you coach management best practices for founders of high-growth companies and their management teams, and have founded several companies yourself in the past. Can you still remember the coaching that got you the most ahead yourself?

Michel: For me, it was sales training at the time. Before that, I always hated sales. My association with salespeople was someone who aggressively nagged you about something pointless. During this coaching, I realized that this aversion actually had something to do with an internalized belief system: "As a girl, you can't chum up. And doing sales means pandering, and you can't do that. You have to be discovered." And that, of course, is the most obstructive thing you can do as a female founder.

This coaching has shown me how to effectively identify certain issues for myself and work on them. In general, it is tremendously important to find people with whom you can exchange ideas and from whom you can get honest feedback.

How do you feel about sales now?

Michel: If I stand behind the product or service and know that it really adds value for my counterpart, sales has become extremely easy for me. But I'm sure that also has something to do with the fact that I now focus on the human relationship in every sales situation and no longer have to work on my own beliefs.

Ms. Lausten, back at jimdo you grew into your new role together with a coach. What does good support look like in your experience?

Lausten: When I took my second major career step and assumed responsibility for a new area , we had a coaching team available internally with whom I could prepare for my new role. A great deal of importance was attached to the topic of "change management," and rightly so. I was really given sparring partners to work with. That definitely helped me a lot.

I also received a very helpful tip from a coach at the time. After anonymous feedback, I received the feedback that I was dominant.

Was that a bad thing for you?

Lausten: Yes, it was very bad for me at first. Being dominant was something very negative for me.

The coach said to me "Honestly, a certain amount of dominance is a super trait for someone who wants to be in leadership." I just needed to think about the impact of this trait and what strengths I wanted to build alongside it that would reduce the negative aspects of a certain dominance. Honestly, this point changed my life.

What advice would you give to young female founders today?

Lausten: Many things don't come until you ask for them. No one should forget that. You can't wait to be found or promoted. You have to be aware of where you want to go. This is perhaps a point where women and men actually differ. I think many men find it easier to formulate that than many women.

Michel: I think another element is that we women often have to formulate our aspirations for advancement in relation to men in traditional structures. In most cases, it's easier to establish a dialog with someone of my own gender - and that's also related to habit, of course. This is simply a classic phenomenon of psychology and rapport, that is, a relationship sustained by mutual empathic attention. When I deal with men who work primarily with men, they are used to a male rapport. As a woman, I break through the familiar pattern, so to speak, and it is beneficial to be aware of this. At the same time I have to meet a counterpart who is willing and able to see, hear and understand this other pattern and to enter into a rapport with me. Otherwise it will be a terribly exhausting process with little likelihood of success.

What qualities do you think are particularly important for founders?

Michel: In my eyes, one of the most important qualities is the ability to self-reflect. The willingness and ability to continuously question oneself without questioning oneself. That means, above all, being open to developing yourself further. Where are things I can work on, things I can improve? This basic quality is equally important for men and women; the challenge is that this questioning, especially in women, unfortunately sometimes tips over into self-doubt. I know this all too well from my own experience, and it is not easy to overcome this point.

What advice would you give parents on how to strengthen their daughters' self-worth?

Michel: Well, give them courage! Give them the feeling: "You can do it, try it out!", "You can even fall down sometimes, it's no big deal." Trying things out also involves failure, and that's completely okay.

What do you think of the women's quota?

Lausten: I think it's good!

Michel: I was against it at first, but now I'm a proponent. I think it's sad that we need it but I've since accepted that nothing will change if we don't have it.

Doesn't the thought bother you that you might have only gotten the job because you're a token woman - or that at least that's what others think about you?

Michel: So what? Always asking myself what others think about me doesn't get me anywhere. I'm used to being the only woman among men, and whether I end up being a token woman or not: as long as I achieve what I set out to do, it doesn't matter at all.

Lausten: On the contrary, I actually feel it more as a privilege. I'm a trailblazer because I'm making sure that the next generation will perhaps have it easier. I feel that this is something that gives me even more of a push. For me, it's a step on the way to the world I would like to have. A token woman should therefore be a great role model.

About the people

Anna Michel

Anna Michel has founded a total of six companies within 10 years, most recently Fast Forward Imaging GmbH, an innovation company in the field of digital asset generation for ecommerce and augmented and virtual reality applications. Since 2018 she has been working as a coach and since 2020 as the first female partner for scale up, where she accompanies founders of growth companies and their management teams during scaling and strategic transformation processes.

Hillevi Lausten

After her master's degree in communication sciences, psychology and civil law, Hillevi Lausten worked in PR for several years until she took her first leadership position at jimdo in 2015 and was responsible for the website builder's paid marketing. Since then, she has held various marketing leadership positions and now works as COO at DCMN. Together with her team, she was coached at scale up and is herself part of the scale up Women initiative.