"It's about creating an atmosphere where we don't compare based on gender"

Janina Sundermeier, Professor of Digital Entrepreneurship and Diversity at Freie Universität Berlin, and her doctoral student Franziska Mattner have been researching female founders in Germany for some time. In this interview, they talk about diversity in the startup environment, VC capital for female founders and political measures for more equality.

In 2020, according to data from Startbase, only 11.9% of startups in Germany were female. How do you explain that?

Janina Sundermeier: In fact, it shows that primarily existing stereotypes of who and what constitutes a startup person are decisive for the low number of female founders. Men are still more likely to be associated with supposedly start-up-specific attributes such as "assertive", "risk-taking" and "fearless". As a result, they are more likely to identify with the job description and have decisive advantages in accessing important resources, such as venture capital, because decision-makers are also often influenced by stereotypical ideas.

What opportunities are there to overcome these barriers?

Sundermeier: Raising awareness and training for entrepreneurial thinking and action must become more natural for this, so that start-up founding becomes just as tangible a job description for adolescents as, for example, being a doctor, kindergarten teacher or teacher.

And what can be done in the short term?

Franziska Mattner: For one thing, 'entrepreneurship' should be integrated as a subject into our school system at an early stage in order to learn the necessary knowledge and skills, as well as to develop confidence in them. Working with role models can help to get a 'picture' of what it means to be a start-up person or to understand why someone else has chosen this path and to evaluate whether this path is also an option for me. In addition, of course, our state can create a variety of incentives.

What incentives might these be?

Mattner: Start-up scholarships - such as the EXIST start-up scholarship, for example, can help ease the step from permanent employment to start-up. For a period of twelve months, the teams (max. three people) receive a monthly basic salary including workspace, coaching and networking. EXIST currently primarily supports technology- or knowledge-based start-up projects from the university environment. One possibility, for example, would be to expand the conditions and funding volumes (new target groups, types of innovations) in order to keep the barriers to entry as low as possible. It would be interesting to see whether an additional 'women's edition' with female coaches, female investors, connections to networks of female founders and target-group-specific marketing could increase the proportion of founders per year.

Ms. Sundermeier, do you also think that policymakers need to take more initiative to make the startup industry more diverse?

Sundermeier: In the foreword to the Female Founder Monitor from 2020, Brigitte Zypries says that despite all her efforts, nothing has really changed so far in terms of the proportion of female founders. I find this honesty remarkable, but I also see the efforts of various ministries. For example, I am part of the jury for the innovation program for business models and pioneering solutions of the Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy, and here great care is taken to ensure that relevant applications are evaluated by a very diverse jury. These are important steps in the right direction and, in addition, all political possibilities help to free the social image of a start-up person from stereotypes.

On average, founders are 36 years old. To what extent does a desire to have children inhibit one's own start-up?

Sundermeier: In fact, many women start a business later, when they have already gained professional experience. That is actually a very good basis. The fact that many women don't dare to take the step into start-up formation has to do with the socially shaped idea that every start-up is the first step toward private insolvency and that it directly requires vast amounts of resources to build up a company. These myths need to be dispelled and more offers are needed to show how an idea can be validated with simple means in terms of real potential.

I have just become a mother myself and would find it a nice addition if, in addition to all the baby fun courses, there were also offers that invite mothers to validate and further develop their own ideas piece by piece, guided and with consideration for the needs of the newborn.

Do you also see societal benefits from more female founders?

Mattner: Since startups research new technologies, develop digital products, or bring forth business models that change entire industries, it is always desirable that the scene of those 'helping to shape' is structured as heterogeneously as possible. This allows the needs, wishes and ideas of different target groups to be better taken into account in product development. That's why I wish for a diverse, open, heterogeneous and sustainable start-up scene with lots of cool women and men.

Janina Sundermeier.

To successfully advance a start-up, female and male founders need capital. But female start-up teams in particular are more likely to lack it. Is there a need for a women's quota in the VC sector?

Sundermeier: The title of a U.S. study, , which analyzed the conversations between VCs and founders, speaks volumes for the need for a rethink in the VC world: "We ask men to win and women not to lose." Still, it's always ambivalent with quotas. On the one hand, quotas are needed to address the symptoms of the distorted perception of the male ideal in the startup context. On the other hand, quotas do not necessarily cure the causes of the distorted assessment of men and women. The quota is only effective if the VC world is open to criticism and change and doesn't just bring women on board to escape a social media shitstorm with the next group photo.

Mattner: I think the question is, what's the problem? Are there simply no female founding teams that female investors could invest in? Do the ideas or business models, of the female founding teams not match the growth goals of those who invest? Is there a selection bias based on gender? Do men tend to 'trust' other men and women other women?

I find diversity more and more exciting, so - a clear yes to this, also for the investor scene. Furthermore, I think it would be great if the SDGs (Sustainable Development Goals) & ESG criteria (the standard for sustainable investments) are included in the decision-making process when selecting start-ups, in addition to their growth targets.

Franziska Mattner.

In which areas do you think female teams are better than all-male founding teams?

Mattner: In all of them! (laughs) There are studies or reports that compare women's and men's teams, however, I don't know what good that does us except to sharpen the 'fronts'. The point is to create an atmosphere - in schools, in the trades, at universities, in the workplace, on supervisory boards, in politics - in which we don't compare on the basis of gender, but in which we promote the potential of the individual. Who contributes when, at what time and how in professional life, family, household, etc. - here we certainly need more openness and flexibility from us as a whole society.

What tips would you give to young female founders?

Sundermeier: Go for it! Find out what kind of support services are available in your area. If you are studying or have studied, the university's start-up center is a good first port of call. In addition, there are events in many cities that are organized via the meetup.com platform, and many chambers of commerce also offer support. All of these are first points of contact to gradually find out what offers exist for the respective start-up phase. In addition, you usually meet people here who are open and unreservedly opposed to founding a startup, at least more unreservedly than your own parents or friends, who may have little to do with this path.

Mattner: There are now many good places to go, e.g. founder networks with mentoring such as Female Founders, WomenTech Network, FeMentor or teamnushu, but also podcasts, accelerators, events, meetups or trade fairs that make a strong case for women in the startup scene.

From who can you learn something from as an aspiring female founder?

Sundermeier: I think the answer to this question is always very subjectively shaped. Dr. Sophie Chung (Qunomedical GmbH) and Farina Schurzfeld (Selfapy GmbH) have impressed me and the participants in my events with their personalities and mindsets. Of course, I'm also a big fan of the female founders who I'm allowed to accompany closely on their way as a mentor, such as Jaane Henning and Johanna Lubig, who will digitize couples therapy with Recoupling.

What are the coolest ideas (startups) you know of from female founding teams?

Mattner: From the Strascheg Center for Entrepreneurship, the startup center at Munich University of Applied Sciences, come, for example, Long Hair Girls, Jesango or nearbees. Other names that often come up in the media are Verena Pausder from Fox and Sheep, Ida Tin from Clue, Julia Bösch from Outfittery, Lea-Sophie Cramer from Amorelie or Milena Glimbovski from 'Original Unverpackt'. There are so many incredible great and exciting stories. You can listen to a few of them in our new university podcast fIVE, which launches on 15.03.2021.

Are there other countries where female founders have it easier?

Sundermeier: In a study from 2016, colleagues from Hohenheim examined the rate of female founders in the 20 leading startup ecosystems worldwide. Berlin ended up in last place, while the first four places were occupied by American ecosystems, such as Silicon Valley. Nevertheless, I would be cautious about concluding that female founders have it easier there. The VC study mentioned earlier with the finding "We ask men to win and women not to lose" is based on data from the U.S. and shows that there are reservations about women in the startup context there as well.

Nevertheless, the American mentality is different and the idea that anyone can make it from rags to riches apparently also affects the self-confidence with which start-up ideas are implemented in the USA. The motto is "You can have it all.

Thank you very much for the interview.

About the people:

Prof. Dr. Janina Sundermeier

Janina Sundermeier, Professor of Digital Entrepreneurship and Diversity at Freie Universität Berlin, serves as an ambassador for "Women's Entrepreneurship" within NFUSION, the Entrepreneurs Network of Freie Universität Berlin. In addition, she has led the initiatives "Hello DIversity! Conference 2019," "WoMenventures," and" Digital Entrepreneurship Hub" and thus advocates for more diversity in the startup scene.

Franziska Mattner

Franziska Mattner, who has been a lecturer at Munich University of Applied Sciences since 2016, teaches in the areas of Business Model Design, Innovation and Design Thinking. She is also very involved in the SCE, the university's start-up center, where she initiated the start-up podcast "FIVE", among other things. She is currently doing her doctorate on the research topic: "Female Entrepreneurship & Online Education".


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